Curse

Vanquisher · Aug 20, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Discuss.

So I just got back from almost a year long absence from playing properly. I'm thinking of getting back into the game but I doubt it will happen due to the vast amount of players that have moved on, including most of my former Guild Mates. Would like to hear opinions.

Obviously I'd prefer it to be so. It gave a great strategic element to GvG play, as pushes and efforts to fall back, various splits, and the preperations were a great part of GvG play. Furthermore, there was little stalling to just win at VoD, nor Builds specifically designed to win when those conditions came. There were, naturally, exceptions, however the amount now far outweigh then. Seems to me the main reason for shortening the VoD time is for quicker AT matches, which serves a quantity rather than quality attitude ArenaNet have towards the highest form of PvP.

Also, Cat Maps should be in rotation for AT's. Would be eager to hear views on this - it would be better to keep the NPC staggering as is, change the VoD timer, and change the Cat maps so that they are symetrical and the fixed shot range can actually be implemented (it's a well known fact it's already been tried and tested).

Ta.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 20, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Signed.

At the very least change it back to 20/25 with a bigger delay between npc waves.

18 min vod with 20 min lord walking just enforces defensive builds with 'VoD skills' (i.e. AoE) because it's much easier to stall for VoD and theres a lot less time to creat a morale/npc advantage.

I MP I · Aug 20, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

/signed x10 GvGs were more interesting and fun then. It was the difference maker between winning or losing since a lot could happen in 30 minutes.

Bankai · Aug 20, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I like this.

/writes down name

Nurse With Wound · Aug 20, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I never understood the reasons why it was shortened down to 20 mins in the first place, now, to merely 18 mins. Bring back old VOD timer.

yesitsrob · Aug 20, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

While this would probably encourage guilds to run less boring shit. The ones that do continue to run 2 blinding surges, clumsiness mesmers, and other horriblly boring crap will be even more boring to face than they are now, because you'll have to put up with them for an extra 10 minutes and there's about an 84% chance that at least 2 guildies will fall asleep in that extra 10 minutes, thus losing you the match because you forgot to stock enough Red Bull.

In general though I like the idea, I'm just not sure how fun it will be in the current meta where a lot of the defensive skills remain very strong.

Martin Firestorm · Aug 20, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

I'd support this. As for cat maps in ATs, I'd prefer that AT's just be scrapped altogether, at least for gvg.

crimsonfilms · Aug 20, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

I'd support this. As for cat maps in ATs, I'd prefer that AT's just be scrapped altogether, at least for gvg.

I prefer the 20/25 VoD - especially if they add the new NPC walking behavior.

30 VoD is just too long for a +1/+2 match.

removal of AT with current ladder = dead GW PvP

AT is the only thing that keeps the current top guilds interested. You don't see much no name guilds playing it - meaning it is not that popular for guilds beyond top 100.

pigdestroyer · Aug 20, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

not a good idea, guilds who run uberdefensive builds will continue to do so... too boring

Yichi · Aug 20, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Good to have ya come back vanq.

Yeah id agree that the game play was better back when the VoD timer was 30 minutes, but in the current meta, there are a huge amount of overly defensive builds running around out there that are built just for VoD, even more so than before. The dual bsurge/clumsiness mes is one example. While pushing back the timer to its origional state would be great, the problem you'll see with it is it now just made the AT's another hour longer almost (they lowered the VoD timer to 18 minutes to try and shorten the game play for AT's, or at least that was a reason they gave...) and if you run across a hugely defensive build like that which takes advantage of VoD mechanics, you have even more of a chance to fall asleep during the match.

and yes, the removal of AT's for GvG would kill the current competitive PvP thats left in the game.

Vanquisher · Aug 20, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

While this would probably encourage guilds to run less boring shit. The ones that do continue to run 2 blinding surges, clumsiness mesmers, and other horriblly boring crap will be even more boring to face than they are now, because you'll have to put up with them for an extra 10 minutes and there's about an 84% chance that at least 2 guildies will fall asleep in that extra 10 minutes, thus losing you the match because you forgot to stock enough Red Bull.

In general though I like the idea, I'm just not sure how fun it will be in the current meta where a lot of the defensive skills remain very strong.

Catapult Map and the use of tactics pretty much dominates any such strategy. That was the advantage of Cat maps. Even if teams turtle you just have that massive advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

I prefer the 20/25 VoD - especially if they add the new NPC walking behavior.

30 VoD is just too long for a +1/+2 match.

removal of AT with current ladder = dead GW PvP

AT is the only thing that keeps the current top guilds interested. You don't see much no name guilds playing it - meaning it is not that popular for guilds beyond top 100.

Very few matches that give +1 or +2 lasted anywhere near VoD when it was 30 minutes. People very rarely stalled for VoD unless they'd been pushed back, and the vast majority ran with offensive builds and strategies that prevented this from happening. The better teams would often play all the way up to 30, with VoD preperations beginning at around 20/21 because they were unable to beat eachother before that. Those were amazing matches too. The slightest mistakes would be capitalized upon and you'd lose.
If you were trying to farm ladder points, would you prefer 3 quick matches with a longer VoD timer, or to turtle for 30 minutes knowing you're likely to lose anyway. You can easily make more points in the time you would be stalling, which is why during the last weekend of tournament seasons with ladder qualification everyone used to run quick builds, and in the 3 day season most people ran SBRI and Dual/Triple Smite. Quick results, quick points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

not a good idea, guilds who run uberdefensive builds will continue to do so... too boring

Because when it was 30 minutes before, every team did that, didn't they?

"Ye ok."

The High Lord · Aug 20, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

I agree with the catapult changes which should have been implemented ages ago. But I don't know about the VoD timer. Yes, matches will become better, but due to alot of people leaving the game it will be hard to find opponents. Not much people want to spend 45 mins/round.

pigdestroyer · Aug 20, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Catapult Map and the use of tactics pretty much dominates any such strategy. That was the advantage of Cat maps. Even if teams turtle you just have that massive advantage.

Very few matches that give +1 or +2 lasted anywhere near VoD when it was 30 minutes. People very rarely stalled for VoD unless they'd been pushed back, and the vast majority ran with offensive builds and strategies that prevented this from happening. The better teams would often play all the way up to 30, with VoD preperations beginning at around 20/21 because they were unable to beat eachother before that. Those were amazing matches too. The slightest mistakes would be capitalized upon and you'd lose.
If you were trying to farm ladder points, would you prefer 3 quick matches with a longer VoD timer, or to turtle for 30 minutes knowing you're likely to lose anyway. You can easily make more points in the time you would be stalling, which is why during the last weekend of tournament seasons with ladder qualification everyone used to run quick builds, and in the 3 day season most people ran SBRI and Dual/Triple Smite. Quick results, quick points.

Because when it was 30 minutes before, every team did that, didn't they?

"Ye ok."

key word of the day "did" past time, not the same guilds, not the same meta, for the current meta I'd take the 18 min VoD over 30 easily.

Winstar · Aug 20, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

While 30 minutes would be hard on the ATS, I don't agree that the ATS is the glue holding things together. The fact that the ATS, after forefits happen, is basically small tournament with a handful of 200 and better teams is an indication of a problem. What the game needs is a way to encourage more teams to get better, play more, and revitalize GvG given the loss in the player base at the top. The current ATS system doesn't seem to do much to encourage newer players and guilds to break into GvG. While it might do the job of hanging on the the remaining top players, something needs to be done to get more people playing.

Winstar · Aug 20, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

key word of the day "did" past time, not the same guilds, not the same meta, for the current meta I'd take the 18 min VoD over 30 easily.

The question in the end seems to be whether or not additional time would allow for teams to make more plays for NPC's and setup up for VoD better so that defensive teams can't simply hold out until then and come out with full force. VoD comes up awfully fast right now and it makes it easier for defensive teams to hold out.

Lykan · Aug 20, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

/signed

go vanq!

fenix · Aug 21, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

This could be a good change, considering how much better GvG was before the 20 minute VoD. Teams were allowed to 'dig in' at the stand and put constant pressure on the other team, and not worry about them stalling until VoD came. Matches were almost always over quickly too, which is nice, since teams ran highly offensive builds to wipe the other team as fast as they could, rather than chill out till VoD and NPC-fsck their opponent...

I agree with this change, it would be nice. Although AT's would be painfully slow....

Tifa Superstar · Aug 21, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Some people have a RL and don't have all day to spend in a match unfortunately.

/not signed

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 21, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifa Superstar

Some people have a RL and don't have all day to spend in a match unfortunately.

/not signed

Yeah let's make matches 5 minutes instead.

around · Aug 21, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52

I really don't want 30 minute VoD because I have bad experience of playing in a team with a spirit shitter that forced all GvGs to go on for agggggggeeeeeesssssssssssssss.

20 minute VoD is much better because matches don't drag on for so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing long.